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  • rick5127 - Friday, February 12, 2010 - link

    Thanks for the nice review.
    I am an enthusiast as I always push the envelope. A few years back I was running an ASUS PC-DL (dual socket 604 system) and started having flaky problems. After much testing we finally found it was a PSU problem. As I was running several of these machine 24/7 at 100% load (Folding at home project) I started eating power supplies. After much research we, several of us worked together on this, finally settled on a minimum spec of 30a for the 12v rail. This was about the time the dual rails started coming out. Well after burning up several of these I finally changed to PC-Power and cooling supplies and haven't had a problem in 10 years or so.
    I get a kick out of some that say this 750 supply is too much. Well one of my systems that is running here has dual socket 775 quad cores with dual Geforce 9800 GTX+'s in it. Needless to say the 750 is close to maxed out.
    In any case PC-Power and Cooling builds some of the best PSU's in the world and I wouldn't trust my systems to anything else.
    I noticed the price here was listed at $199 I think... well NewEgg has a recertified 750 for $89 at the moment. FYI
  • Martimus - Thursday, July 19, 2007 - link

    What is the difference between this PSU and the copper 750 Quad Silencer? Other than the fact his one is $30 more, the specs look the same between the two. Can you tell me what differences they have?
  • meeshu - Thursday, July 19, 2007 - link

    Once again no ripple results!
  • Vidmar - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    While I think the Efficiency charts in load percentage are nice, if you included Efficiency charts in watts it would be more informative from a buying perspective.

    The reason? I know the sum of system load is 375watts normally. The way it is now, if power supply XYZ has a max load of 650watts, I have to calculate where my ~375watts falls into that load chart (~57% load). But if the next power supply has 1000 watts max, then I have to yet again calculate what load percentage that may be for *that* power supply. If the Efficiency charts were in watts, instead of load, no calculations would be necessary. If I could look at your charts and see that XYZ power supply provided those watts the most efficiently, that would be the power supply I would get.

    Maybe you could just provide a second X axis on the chart that included the watts.

    Thanks!
  • bob4432 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    why is it rated @ 60A output on the 12V rail yet only delivered ~50A? so is 60A peak and not a ems amount? you got ~600W on the 12V, not ~720W like the math dictates.

    i know it is 10A (120W, quite a bit of difference imho) but does that mean that other psus that are rated @ 30A on the 12V line only put out 20A? or a 20A that only puts out 15A?

    seems a bit misleading if they are mixing peak and ems amounts....
  • Martimus - Friday, July 20, 2007 - link

    It is a DC output. There is no "EMS".
  • bob4432 - Friday, July 20, 2007 - link

    maybe i am thinking rms....haha
  • bob4432 - Friday, July 20, 2007 - link

    ok, so why is it still 10A lower than what it is listed as?
  • Belldandy - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    What was the ambient temperature when the efficiency tests were performed? I'm assuming the efficiency will go up when the ambient temperature is lower as it leads to lower temperature of the components.

    Also is the unit unable to hit 750 Watts? It states that the peak wattage is 825, and there's plenty of room for more current to be drawn from the 12V lines if it can indeed provide 60A current. Can it actually provide 825W of inrush current to power up large disk arrays?

    Given the premium nature of this power supply, I wouldn't be surprised if it found it's way into video editing workstations with 2 Quad core cpus and a disk array of say 24 SATA drives.
  • Christoph Katzer - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    The graphs show the efficiency at higher temps (25-50). You can see the exact temp on page 14.

    I will add the inrush and peak wattage test in the methodology.
  • Belldandy - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    Was the efficiency higher at constant room temperature @ 25? I'm just curious because in most well cooled cases, for example my Antec P180, the ambient temperature around the power supply never goes up, no matter how high the load.

    Perhaps the methodology should also test the max 12V current load that many new power supplies now advertise. Testing upto 50A when it's advertised to do 60A maybe the reason why the DC12V don't drop by all that much. Granted there are other reviews that have also found the Silencer's voltages to be very stable, interestingly the 5V line was more stable and never fell below 4.9V

    Great job on the noise and temperature testing, it among the best of any reviews on the web. I have decided toget the Silencer after your review, and given I don't envision needing more than 600Watts, the efficiency numbers are very solid.
  • LoneWolf15 - Friday, July 20, 2007 - link

    You want to measure power supply exhaust temperature, not ambient case temperature.

    The confined insides of a power supply will be quite a bit warmer than the ambient temperature of your case, even in a well-cooled case. It is not unusual to reach temperatures of 40C and higher in a number of situations.
  • Googer - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    Perhaps, you should consider adding a 24 hour full load stability test to your psu testing procedures?

    If such testing is done I would recommend it be done in an area where fire cannot spread like a Concrete room/box or metal building and where full fire suppression capabilities are automatically dispensed.
  • dare2savefreedom - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    WTF?

    anandy stop playing around...

    Where's the 24 hour 3d geforce 8800gtx sli test?

    Where's the triple 8800gtx sli test?

    Where the audible sound test -> run a 8800gtx with a intensive 3d game and report whether
    there is a high freq whine noise - I get that with a ultraX 600watt.
  • crimson117 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    AT Editors,

    You often in your PSU reviews mention the importance of hitting the proper spot on the efficiency/wattage curve to get the best performance from your power supply.

    Now that you have your new PSU testing gear, can you provide a short article on the actual power needs for a few common systems setups?

    Such as
    - a budget X2 3x00+/4x00+ rig with a low/midrange GPU
    - a midrange computer with a low/midrange end C2D and a 8800 GTS
    - a high end computer with a OC'd C2D and a 8800 GTX (and also in SLI)

    I would find this quite useful, and it would be very real-world information to provide to your readers.

    Thanks!
  • LoneWolf15 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    quote:

    The label tells us that this unit comes with a single 12V rail. PCP&C was one of the first companies to introduce this new method, while many others continue with designs that include four separate 12V rails rated at only 20 amps each.


    This method is far from new. Prior to ATX 2.0, there were plenty of single 12v rail power supplies. I have two Antec 4U cases at home with single-rail 36A EPS power supplies, prior to that I've had several single 12v-rail Enermax ATX 1.x units.

    I believe the possible danger mentioned in the article is overstated, and that Intel was conservative in their specifications, which are now aging fast. Done right, there is nothing to worry about, and vendors willing to put high-amp single rails in their power supplies are usually the few who take quality control seriously.
  • ATWindsor - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    Yes, the danger-part is overrated, and having several rails is a big hassle (if you buy a PSU of the proper size for your usage), I'll take a single rail any day. Besides a lot of the "4 rail" PSUs in reality only have a single rail anyway, like for instance seasonic.

    AtW
  • Brunnis - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    So, when will we get an article that discusses the actual need for power supplies like this? Why not put together a few different systems and measure the power consumption to see what is actually needed. My guess is that not even 1% of the computerized population own a computer that needs a 750W PSU (or comes close to needing it).

    People seem to think that 600-1000W PSUs are needed whenever a gaming machine is built, when even a decent 400W PSU would provide power to spare.
  • LoneWolf15 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    Problem is, that a gaming machine assumes at least one high-end video card in many cases (for the purposes of high-end, I'll assume a minimum Geforce 8800GTS). If you add one high-end graphics card, a moderate processor, and two hard disks (I rarely know a geek that has just one), a sound card, and a performance mainboard, you're getting up there, and most people want room for expansion. 400w in this day and age is very reachable, and when you consider that nVidia specs power requirements as a minimum of 450w with 30 amps on the 12v rail for the Geforce 8800GTX, consumption can be higher than you think (figures taken from Anandtech, http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870...">link here).

    Amperage is actually more important in this case. When was the last time you saw a 400w PSU deliver that kind of amperage? You'd need to use two rails, and then still provide power from both of those rails to your remaining components. Of course, this is assuming a gaming system, a quality 400w PSU would be enough for almost any non-gamer's needs.

    I'm not saying that everyone needs a 1kW power supply (I'm running a 550 myself). But I've seen plenty of novice users try to buy a fancy system, and skimp out on the power supply. Give Anandtech time; this is one of their first PSU reviews.
  • xsilver - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    If you also have heat and efficiency concerns then a higher wattage PSU may be more appropriate - especially if you can afford the $$$

    Efficiency starts to dip at around 55%+ so a 750w psu ultimately prefers to deliver 400 watts or so which is exactly where a high end system is probably drawing.

    I guess the theory is also that a 750w PSU running at 55% loading for most of its life would last longer than a 450w psu running at 90% loading. Yes there is the cost difference, but some people just like to get something and not have to worry.

    Monitors are usually touted as the longest surviving components of a hard core system but could it be safe to assume that it might be a high end PSU instead?
  • strikeback03 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    quote:

    When was the last time you saw a 400w PSU deliver that kind of amperage?


    Enermax Liberty 400W - tag says up to 20A per +12V rail or 30A between them.


    And frankly, if they had started with reviews of a couple 400-500W power supplies, people probably would have been asking "Where is the review of the (insert favorite big power supply here)? Which is pretty much what happened with the CPU cooler tests.
  • MageXX9 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    I agree...We need to give these guys more time to review more power supplies.

    On another note, while I enjoy reading a 17 page power supply review, more often than not I don't have the time or energy needed to digest the entire article. Most times I read the first page, and then skip directly to the last. What I would really like to see, and think would be most beneficial to everyone interested in power supply articles, is something along the lines of a "leader board".

    The "leader board" could have different classes such as 400W - 600W, and possibly an article describing how to properly rate your components. Learning how to accurately calculate the range of power needed for your system will prevent novices from buying a 750W power supply for a system that only needs 500W. While the 750W will work, it will not perform as well as a lesser wattage power supply ran at 70%.

    The reason I think this would help is I build systems for myself, friends, or family and if I'm not up on the reviews then I have to wade through countless power supply reviews. It'd be nice to think, "I need something in the 400W - 600W range, what is the best". The leaderboard could show what's the best, and could also contain a personal reccommendation from the reviewer that takes into account other factors such as price/performance, asthetics, build quality, warranty, etc.

    I'm not so sure a "leaderboard" for other components is needed since other components are made to work together. I know there is "Anand's picks" on the front page, but it says nothing about power supplies, cases, monitors....etc.

    I'm just thinking out loud...any opinions?

  • Christoph Katzer - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    It sounds very interesting and I was already thinking about a monthly pick for example. Just an article which compares all PSUs tested the past month.

    I am not a fan of high performance PSUs myself. I am trying to get more lower performing ones but it's difficult since the companies want to send in their highest models. I already chose smaller/st models for the tests (Enermax Infiniti 650, Liberty 500, Seasonic 380/400 etc).
  • mostlyprudent - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    If I recall correctly, the "Anandetch PSU Test Methodology" article went so far to say that many users by PSU for in excess of their needs and that an 800 watt PSU is often less efficient at outputting lower wattage levels.

    I am hoping that once they get some more reviews up they will start delineating the kind of system each PSU would be appropriate for (i.e., SLI + Qaudcore) and start making some recomendations for difference wattage ranges.
  • sc3252 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    I don't know anyone who uses these type of power supplies, and I am getting sick of all the top of the line power supply reviews. I am not just talking about this website, but hardocp seems to think a $120 power supply is mainstream too. Can you guys please review something we can buy(cough cough, college students).

    Disclaimer, i didn't read the review, and I don't even care to. This is something I wont buy, and I dont know anyone else that is going to be buying a power supply like it or that will need it.
  • mostlyprudent - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    Unless and until they review every PSU on the planet, some of us will always want more. I have bought my share of $40 PSUs with mixed results. Overall, I have come to believe that the PSU is one of the componants you should not skimp on.

    Having said that, I think wattage (more than price) is something I hope Anandtech covers with greater breadth. I will be disappointed if the majority of the PSU reviews are of 700+ watt PSUs.

    I think the conventional wisdom is often that if brand XYZ makes a great 800 watt PSU, then their 450 watt PSU must also be great. This thinking seems to hold true across other product lines as well. I really hope Anandtech will test the validity of that thinking with respect to PSUs.
  • pervisanathema - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    You have made the common mistake of assuming that your personal experiences with money apply to everyone else outside of your peer group.

    It is quite obvious that these types of PSUs are selling briskly or manufacturers would stop making them instead of introducing new ones.
  • michal1980 - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    I agree with the budget guy.

    people are looking to buy the cheapest CPU and overclock it, but then spend the big bucks on Motherboards/Ram/Powersupply.

    almost might be cheaper to buy a higher end cpu at a speed you know you will get and just get good middle of the road ram/psu/mobo. And you have the benefit of knowing it will work at that speed, not crossing your fingers
  • Alyx - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    If the extra inch or so between fan and components does not help with noise I wonder if it helps with cooling. Possibly creating a move even flow of air over the two heatsinks, and also negating the dead spot in the center of the fan.

    Good review, I'm really interested in these. It will be really nice in a few months once you have a good base of power supplies to compare too. Hopefully you will update the chart on the last page of the review as you go along.
  • Sgraffite - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    The efficiency graphs on page eleven state "lower is better", when I'm pretty sure it should say higher is better :)
  • Christoph Katzer - Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - link

    Thanks, was of course wrong. I changed it now.

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